Talk:The Galactic Whirlpool
I've changed the dating of this story to 2267 as per the discussion at Talk:Kevin Riley. Many sources have indicated that this story takes place in 2267, even the author, as the story leads nicely into "The Trouble with Tribbles". The Arex reference isn't a problem either, because we don't know that Arex wasn't aboard before TAS. --The Doctor 13:32, 12 December 2006 (UTC) :FWIW, the timeline in Voyages of Imagination also lists it in 2267, just prior to The Trouble With Tribbles.--Turtletrekker 08:11, 13 December 2006 (UTC) Family Tree Is T'Pau Spock's great-great-grandmother? I didn't think so, but cannot find anything saying she isn't. This novel says his great-great-grandmother signed the New Charter of the Federation, and T'Pau did this. When she was a Syrannite leader, Spock's great-grandfather was captain of the first contact vessel, but we don't know the age difference between the two, so it is again possible. Opinions? – AT2Howell 22:10, August 16, 2010 (UTC) :Also, T'Pau was the matriarch of Spock's tribe. – AT2Howell 22:12, August 16, 2010 (UTC) ::T'Pau, Soval, and Solkar all signed for Vulcan. Were there more? If not, then by logical elimination, T'Pau is Spock's ancestor, explaining why she was also his family's matriarch. Anybody? – AT2Howell 14:02, August 17, 2010 (UTC) :::Keep in mind that she could easily have been the maternal ancestor of Sarek, Skon, or Solkar. – AT2Howell 14:17, August 17, 2010 (UTC) ::::When you look at it, it is very likely that she was at least Spock's great-grandmother, this source says his great-great-grandmother signed the document, and T'Pau did sign the document. So...am I just talking to myself? I am, aren't I? I'll give ya'll a chance to respond, but then I'm calling it and linking T'Pau as his g-g-grandmother. Cool? – AT2Howell 14:23, August 17, 2010 (UTC) :I'd say no, that very much your own presumption. -- Captain MKB 14:25, August 17, 2010 (UTC) Okay, so his g-g-grandmother signed it for Vulcan. T'Pau signed it for Vulcan. His g-g-grandmother is considered the honorned Elder of his family. T'Pau is the matriarch of his family. Am I missing something? Do you have data to bring to this or are you just shooting from the hip? – AT2Howell 14:27, August 17, 2010 (UTC) ::She could have been Solkar's mother, but they look relatively the same age (doesn't mean much with Vulcans). ::She could have been Solkar's wife's mother, but again the age thing is there. ::She could have been Skon's wife's grandmother (the woman did have two, barring cloning experiments). ::What do you got saying it isn't the same person? I have little on my side, but it seems to be more than you have against it. – AT2Howell 14:30, August 17, 2010 (UTC) :::I know, zoom into that picture and see how many Vulcan chicks you see standing around at the signing. I'll wait. – AT2Howell 14:39, August 17, 2010 (UTC) thumb|The signing of the Articles of the Federation in 2161. :And what is the difference between the Articles and the New Charter. Why does this have two different names? :Based on the on the information you have provided here, there are other possibilities that could preclude the possibility, which would make your conclusion false. I don't blame you for not being able to see this logically, but please don't start an argument over it based on your own misunderstanding and inability to make logical conclusions. :* Spock's g-g-grandmother who signed the charter could have been another person besides the persons listed here. We have no information about how many representatives signs this charter, do we? :*Despite T'Pau being matriarch of Spock's clan, Sarek's branch of the family could have married into the clan at some point, which would make them relations by marriage, and not by blood. If everybody in the clan was automatically related, they'd all be extremely inbred. We have to accept that some people who are not blood related are in the clan. :Please, let me know if you are still confused, I'll have someone else explain it to you in simpler terms. -- Captain MKB 14:42, August 17, 2010 (UTC) Okay, you have: *Spock's g-g-grandmother might be an unknow person who has yet to be revealed. *Spock may not be related to T'Pau. I have: *Spock's g-g-grandmother and T'Pau both signed the document. *Spock's g-g-grandmother and T'Pau were both famous honored Elders in Spock's family. *Spock's g-g-grandmother and T'Pau are roughly the same age. *Spock's g-g-grandmother and T'Pau have nothing saying they are not the same person. *When this book was written, the only members of Spock's family we'd ever seen were his parents and T'Pau. *Everything above suggests they at least hung out, if not were the same person. I'd say I'm winning. Let's let 8of5 be the decider. I'll go which ever way his vote goes. Promise, I'll drop it forever. – AT2Howell 14:51, August 17, 2010 (UTC) :And this is why I brought up the whole 'networking' thing. It always comes down to you, me, and 8of5. So shoot me for suggesting we might get to know each other outside of the wiki. We've been at this for years now. – AT2Howell 15:10, August 17, 2010 (UTC) ::OK, this is why I try not to answer when you ask ignorant questions like this. First off, i have to say "huh whatever" on your last comment, i have no idea how being on myspace would make it easier to talk to you when you are being ignorant, but I have to say it would make you even more of an annoyance than you are being now. ::Just because you think everything above might make sense to you, there is one thing you are ignoring: ::*Spock's g-g-grandmother and T'Pau have nothing saying they are the same person. ::This means that everything you've said thus far is extraneous. You point out and then ignore the very real possibility that they were two people who hung out together and are not the same person. As long as there is even the possibility they were two separate people, we shouldn't be trying to draw a different conclusion and combine two different people into one.. period. end of story. -- Captain MKB 18:20, August 17, 2010 (UTC) :I was going for this thing called 'facebook' (more popular with us ex-military types trying to stay in touch). If you're going to get this upset about it, fine, we'll keep the link Spock's great-great-grandmother. I do see your point, but felt the inference was quite strong. Though it means nothing on this wiki, I'll get in touch with Gerrold and see what he intended. Just for personal satisfaction. – AT2Howell 18:24, August 17, 2010 (UTC) ::And, dude, it's been 3 frackn years. Sure, you've been kinda an old wet hen recently, but I do consider you and 8of5 to be colleagues at least, if not friends. – AT2Howell 18:28, August 17, 2010 (UTC)